The ‘atheist arguments’ Category

understanding the gamble

Saturday, July 24th, 2010
know whats at stake before you gamble

understand whats at stake before you gamble

Have you ever made a really big gamble, a gamble so large that if you lost you’re not sure what you would do in the aftermath of losing? Not too many people make gambles of that nature because they can’t stomach the risk of losing. With that opening statement I am sure a lot of you had pictures in your mind of a casino you have either been to or seen in a movie. However this post is going to explore the gigantic gamble we all make whether we go to a casino or not.

If you have spent any time on this site you know that I am a person of faith in Christianity. Or to be more clear, I believe in God the creator who has redeemed us to be worthy of salvation and an eternity in Heaven through the crucifixion of and faith in His only Son Jesus Christ. Now there are many people in the world that believe the Christian faith is nonsense and an old fable or a recycled pagan religion for uneducated folks. Understand that I hold my faith whole-heartedly, however for this post to be legitimate I have to admit that I could be wrong in the hopes that if you are a non-believer reading this that you can also admit to possibly being wrong in your stance. Now this is something you probably don’t spend a lot of time considering but one of the above mentioned groups is right and the other is wrong. Therein lays the gamble. Let’s examine a chart I have made below.understand what is at stake before you gamble

In this chart the vertical axis represents the two realities that can exist for Christianity. Either it’s true, or it’s baloney. The horizontal axis represents your belief to either of the realities. You can either believe or not believe. Those really are the only realities and beliefs that can be taken in this debate. Now contrary to what you might think all of us are either in the red or black column because “it’s true” and “it’s baloney” are statements based on realities that you have to have a position with.

The debate as to whether Christianity is true or not is centuries old. After long reflection I have come to realize that the debate is empty and pointless. Regardless of how much we argue that debate is going to settle itself eventually either way. The debate we need to be having is with ourselves internally whether it is right or better to be a person of faith or not. Either way, true or not, all of us are gambling either on red or on black. As you can see, it is a gamble with drastically varying outcomes.

  1. It’s True and You Believe - If Christianity is true and you are a person of faith and live your life according to what the Bible teaches when you die you will be rewarded with an eternity in Heaven.
  2. It’s Baloney and You Believe - If Christianity is not true and there is no afterlife you lived your life as best as you could based on the teachings of the Bible but when you die there is nothing and you cease to exist.
  3. It’s True and You Don’t Believe - If Christianity is true and you don’t believe you lived your life how you saw fit but when you die there is an eternity of suffering ahead of you.
  4. It’s Baloney and You Don’t Believe - If Christianity is not true and there is no afterlife you lived your life as you saw fit and when you die there is nothing, you cease to exist.

Do you see what I am getting at here? For any believer, with their “chips” on red, there is no gamble because if Christianity does turn out to be false they will share in the same fate as non believers. However if it’s true the fates of believers and non-believers are very different. Now please understand that this isn’t some scare tactic. I am by no means saying “look at my fancy chart, now repent and believe!” I am making a sincere effort to get you to think about the consequences of something that the world doesn’t want you to think about.

My chips are on red…
Beyond the chart above there is more to the reason as to why I am betting on red. A number of years ago I realized I am not a good person on my own. I don’t think any of us can say that we are. If you read that last sentence and scoffed at it I would like to know if you would be comfortable if there was a speaker in the back of your head loudly broadcasting everything you we’re thinking 24/7? Or how would you feel if people could turn on the news and get a daily run down of everything you did that day, good or bad? I know that’s not something I would not be interested in for myself. My point is that the true reflection of ourselves is who we are in secret, not what we show everyone else.

The Bible makes it clear that we have all sinned and all fall short of God’s expectations. Now if you get anything out of this post I hope it’s this next bit. God is just. He could not be perfect if he wasn’t. Therefore how could anyone be rewarded with an eternity of happiness if they had been bad and rebellious their entire lives? That can’t happen. So in God’s infinite justice, love and grace He made a way. He could spare the entire human race from a fate of suffering if just one person could get their time on Earth right. Here is where Jesus enters the picture. Christ was entirely perfect and was crucified inspite of it. On him was placed all the wrath and suffering we deserved because of our rebellion. That was enough justice for God to be satisfied. That is why faith in Christ is essential to our salvation. If someone saved our life here on earth would you not be grateful? If someone pushed you out of the way of a speeding car and took the hit for you, would you not be eternally grateful to that person?

So here is this free gift of salvation offered to us by God. All we have to do is accept it. Is it not obvious that a gift isn’t ours until we claim it as our own? If you’re a hungry person and someone offers you a meal, that meal isn’t going to do anything for you until you accept it and eat it. So as a hungry person devours a meal should we not all devour the gift of salvation offered to us by God? Have you ever wondered why Jesus is such a vital part of going to Heaven. The answer is simple, he is the way. He pushed you out of the way and got hit by the car on your behalf. Also as the one who took the punishment in our place he has been made judge of who enters and who doesn’t. In Jesus’ words “no one comes to the Father except through me”. So you need Christ and acceptance of what he did in your heart.

A parachute cannot save you unless you reach out and pull the ripcord. The good news about Jesus cannot save you unless you call on His name. Reinhard Bonnke

The last part of the formula is repentance. To put this into perspective have you ever forgiven someone that hasn’t apologized or at least shown remorse for the wrong thing they did to you? Would it not be difficult and almost impossible to forgive a person like that? Again, God is just, but also merciful. Mercy will be shown to those that are sorry and change their ways. Why should anyone that’s not sorry for what they have done be shown any kind of forgiveness, especially when they continue to just do the wrong/hurtful thing again and again?

Now I get it, a lot of professed Christians are the worst people you may know. And some of the worst things you have heard of on the news have been done in the name of religion or by priests and pastors that should know better. The word hypocrite comes to mind. All I want to ask of you is to not allow the mistakes made by others get in your way and to be responsible for yourself, not others. A lot of people ask the question why does God allow “these things” to happen or say I can’t believe in a good God with all “this stuff” going on. Humans have free will which God gave us and allows us to use. Some use it for good, others don’t. It’s really that simple. We are to blame for all the bad stuff, but that’s not a very popular stance to take. I know when I look in the mirror I don’t want to be at all responsible for the state the world is in, but I am, we all are.

The last point I want to make is the fact that we still have the faith of Christianity around after over 2000 years of trying to disprove it. I think if something were a lie that it just may have been exposed as such after all this time. Speaking of over 2000 years do you realize that the year is technically 2010 A.D., after death? Prior to that the years we’re B.C., before Christ. I don’t think people way back then had a meeting and said “Let’s start counting the years all over again based on the death of a man that never existed.” That seems highly improbable to me.

A Call to Action
At the church I go to we often watch these video’s of street interviews. Random people get asked questions about faith, God, Christ or Heaven on the spot. Some of the answers are unbelievable. Most often people are vague and say”I don’t know, I haven’t really thought about it”. If you are one of those people, get thinking! Picture a roulette wheel that is spinning and the ball is whirling around the perimeter. Red or black, where do you put your metaphorical chips? If you’re a gambler you have to put them on red, you can’t lose. The good news here is that even if terrible things have happened in your life and all this time you have had your chips on black, there is still time to move them over to red. Explore faith for yourself. God is longing for you to come home. The wheel doesn’t stop spinning and the ball doesn’t fall into place until your life is done or Christ returns. But don’t take too long, because we don’t know when our time is up. So don’t ignore this message by merely brushing  it off as unrelevant to you. Like it or not, you are gambling.

science teacher vs christian students

Saturday, July 3rd, 2010

I don’t know if the following interaction between a professor and his class actually took place or not, but either way it is a great dialog that proves a great point. I hope you enjoy it.

Science Teacher vs Christian Students
Let me explain the problem science has with Jesus Christ.  The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand. You’re a Christian, aren’t you, son?

Yes, sir.

So you believe in God?

Absolutely.

Is God good?

Sure! God’s good.

Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?

Yes.

Are you good or evil?

The Bible says I’m evil.

Ahh!The Bible. Here’s one for you. Let’s say there’s a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help them? Would you try?

Yes sir, I would.

So you’re good!

I wouldn’t say that.

Why not say that? You would help a sick and maimed person if you could… in fact most of us would if we could… God doesn’t.

[No answer]

He doesn’t, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?

[No answer]

No, you can’t, can you?…. Let’s start again, son. Is God good?

Er… Yes.

Is Satan good?

No.

Where does Satan come from?

From… God…

That’s right. God made Satan, didn’t he? I think we’re going to have a lot of fun this semester, ladies and gentlemen… Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?

Yes, sir.

Evil’s everywhere, isn’t it? Did God make everything?

Yes.

Who created evil?

[No answer]

Is there sickness in this world? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness. All those terrible things - do they exist in this world?

Yes.

Who created them?

[No answer]

WHO CREATED THEM? TELL ME, PLEASE!…. God created all evil, didn’t He, son?

[No answer]

Tell me, how is it that this God is good if He created all evil throughout all time? All the hatred, the brutality, all the pain, all the torture, all the death and ugliness and all the suffering created by this good God is all over the world, isn’t it, young man?

[No answer]

Don’t you see it all over the place? Huh? Don’t you? Is God good?

[No answer]

Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?”

Yes, professor. I do.

Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you seen Him?

No, sir. I’ve never seen Him.

Then tell us if you’ve ever heard your Jesus?

No, sir. I have not.

Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelled your Jesus… in fact, do you have any sensory perception of your God whatsoever?

[No answer]

Answer me, please.

No, sir, I’m afraid I haven’t.

You’re AFRAID… you haven’t?

No, sir.

Yet you still believe in him?

Yes…

That takes Faith! According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn’t exist. What do you say to that, son? Where is your God now?

[The student doesn't answer]

Sit down, please.

[The Christian sits and another Christian raises his hand]

Professor, may I address the class?

Ah, another Christian in the vanguard! Come, come, young man. Speak some proper wisdom to the gathering.

Some interesting points you are making, sir. Now I’ve got a question for you if that’s okay. Is there such thing as heat?

Yes, the professor replies, there’s heat.

Is there such a thing as cold?

Yes, son, there’s cold too.

No, sir, there isn’t. You can have lots of heat, super-heat, mega-heat, white heat or a little heat but we don’t have anything called cold. We can hit 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can’t go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold, otherwise we would be able to go colder than 458 — You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it. Is there such a thing as darkness, professor?

That’s a dumb question, son. What is night if it isn’t darkness? What are you getting at?

So you say there is such a thing as darkness?

Yes…

You’re wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something, it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it’s called darkness, isn’t it? That’s the meaning we use to define the word. In reality, Darkness isn’t. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker and give me a jar of it. Can you…give me a jar of darker darkness, professor?

Would you mind telling us what your point is, young man?

Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with and so your conclusion must be in error.

Flawed? How dare you!

Sir, may I explain what I mean?

Explain… oh, explain.

You are working on the premise of duality that for example there is life and then there’s death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science cannot even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism but has never seen, much less fully understood them. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, merely the absence of it. Here is one of the most disgusting tabloids you can buy, professor. Is there such a thing as immorality?

Of course there is, now look.

Wrong again, sir. You see, immorality is merely the absence of morality. Is there such thing as injustice? No. Injustice is the absence of justice. Is there such a thing as evil? Isn’t evil the absence of good?

[The professor's pauses in anger]

If there is evil in the world, professor, and we all agree there is, then God, if he exists, must be accomplishing a work through the agency of evil. What is that work God is accomplishing? The Bible tells us it is to see if each one of us will, of our own free will, choose good over evil.

As a philosophical scientist, I don’t view this matter as having anything to do with any choice; as a realist, I absolutely do not recognize the concept of God or any other theological factor as being part of the world equation because God is not observable.

I would have thought that the absence of God’s moral code in this world is probably one of the most observable phenomena going. Newspapers make billions of dollars reporting it every week! Tell me, professor. Do you believe that we have evolved from a monkey?

If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do.

Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir? All previous attempts to explain how the process works have failed. Since no-one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a priest?

I’ll overlook your impudence in the light of our philosophical discussion. Now, have you quite finished

So you don’t accept God’s moral code to do what is righteous?

I believe in what is - that’s observable science!

Ahh! Science! Sir, you rightly state that science is the study of observed phenomena. What you call science too is a premise which is flawed.

SCIENCE IS FLAWED!?

No sir, I mean-Your view of science is flawed. To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, may I give you an example of what I mean? Sir, the basic law of physics says matter can neither be created nor destroyed, and yet you in spite of that believe in spontaneous generation of the entire physical universe! Spontaneous generation of vermin was disproved centuries ago. Talk about straining out the gnat and swallowing the camel! Sir, biogenesis is observable science as you say and life has only been observed to come from other life of like kind and yet you apparently still believe that that is exactly what happened in spite of science that life somehow came from non-life and that animals gave birth to children of other kinds!

Young man, I believe that science will eventually…

…that science will eventually prove that matter can be created, that life can come from non-life. Sir, that’s not science–that’s faith! What you believe is the exact opposite of  observable science! Your faith is in what you are calling science, my faith is in God who created science. Make no mistake, Professor, we’re both operating from faith. And sir, don’t You create failure?! I mean, you set a standard for passing this class, and those who don’t meet it, fail! Isn’t that right? So by setting a standard and utilizing your previously expressed philosophy you create failure! Professor, I mean has anybody ever flunked this class?

I may well be looking at such a someone right now!

Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor’s mind? The class breaks out in laughter. Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor’s mind, felt the professor’s mind, touched or smelled the professor’s mind? No one appears to have done so. It appears no-one here has had any sensory perception of the professor’s mind whatsoever. Well, according to the rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol and science, I declare that the professor has no mind.

[The Christian sits and begins filling out a drop slip]
The End.

I don’t know where you sit after having read something like that but I think it is a great demonstration of how blindly some follow what the world teaches as sound truth. Consider the following verse from the Bible;

See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ. Colossians 2:8

everyone believes in a book - a shout out to athiests

Monday, April 19th, 2010
everything that everyone knows or believes came out of a book

everything that everyone knows or believes came out of a book

This is a thought I have been rattling around in my head for a while and I think it has peculated long enough that its ready for sharing.

A lot of atheists that I have heard speak are really critical of the Bible as the source of faith that fuels Christian beliefs. Now I must warn that I am going to be painting with a fairly wide brush in this post as I make some broad generalizations, but even with that said I think my point will stick to the wall quite nicely. First lets assume we are speaking of the kind of atheists that run with the science crowd believing that nothing created everything in the big bang and that we all evolved out of a puddle over the course of the last few billion years. Where does that information come from?

In a lot of cases that information comes out of books. Books that have been recorded through out history as scientists have conducted studies and experiments. Those books have then been leveraged to write other books, some of them most likely translated from other languages over time. Those books have been used to formulate science class curriculum for students. Some books are even made into educational videos for T.V. and used in class rooms and labs to teach other people what science has revealed.

So here is my point. Everyone believes in a book. So many people in the “science camp” believe what science has to tell them without having seen the results of an experiment or study with their own eyes.  That sounds a little like faith to me. They haven’t looked in the microscope, seen the mutation of cells or understood what carbon dating even means but they rest easy that what they are told or what is in the books is true. By definition that is faith. So why does the Bible get such a hard time? Is there such a gap between science and miracles?

We have a book that is full of examples of miracles but for some reason it is such a stretch for billions of individuals to believe. People retort that the Bible was written by men. Well so were science books. Well aren’t science books written by men that had experiences and saw things with their owns eyes? Sure, but the Bible was also written by men that saw with their own eyes and had experiences as well. But didn’t those men have self serving purposes to control peoples thoughts and put their mind in a box? Who actually makes that argument and why? Does Christianity leave some assumptions and expect faith to bridge the gap? It sure does… and after having read a bit on evolution there are some serious assumptions there too. OK, but at the end of all the arguing isn’t religion focused on getting peoples money? You mean there is no money in big science?

To conclude I want to say that this wasn’t intended as a religion vs. science or creationism vs. evolution post but it is the most convenient topic to lean on. The only point I intended to make is that no matter where you stand you believe in stuff from a book written by men or women at some point in history. So take it a little easy if your ripping into a Christian for believing in a book. At the end of the day when all the arguing is done everyone has faith in a book.

seeing isn’t believing - a shout out to atheists

Monday, October 5th, 2009
not everything needs to be seen with the eyes

not everything needs to be seen with the eyes

A while ago I was surfing around on youtube doing some searches and through various related video links I ended up discovering a youtube show called “The Atheist Experience“. I watched a number of videos and was thoroughly frustrated by what I saw and heard. The hosts of the show are quite rude and smug, often interrupting a caller with a mute button to make their point if they feel the are being spoken over, while having no problem talking over the caller who has no mute button. That aside I want to point out an over lying message that I heard over and over again. No proof, where is your proof, you can’t prove that and so on.

So one night I was quite frustrated by what I had heard and was thinking to myself what could I say to an atheist that would deflate that argument. During some quite time in prayer the following came to me;

Just because you can’t see something does not mean it’s not there. Consider this; one hundred years ago you could have tried to explain to someone what an atom is and people would have thought of you as a crazy person. You could have pointed to a table and said “this table is made up of millions of tiny elements held together by electric charges making it solid.” That kind of truth would have been mocked because it could not be seen. The same applies for Christ. We cannot see him physically, but he is there. In the mean time, like the atom could be seen in the form of a table, we can see the form of Christ in his church which is made of millions of people held together by his spirit making it solid. This is a truth that should not be mocked because we have been promised in time that Christ will be revealed and seen with the eye, but until that day “we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal. 2 Corinthians 4:18

As an extension of that line of thinking
There was a time when people thought the world was flat. It was common knowledge and just accepted as the way the world was. Then some grumblings started to emerge about the possibility of the world not being flat, but in fact was round. Anyone who entertained that idea as a possibility was mocked as a lunatic. Well here we are today knowing the world if round because it has been proven so. The idea here is that not everything that is true or real has been proven or revealed… yet. So please consider this when dismissing the person of Jesus or disregarding God as an invention of man. One day all will be revealed, which side of the debate would you like to find yourself on when that day does come?

A couple good Bible verses to end with
It is better to take refuge in the Lord than to trust in man. Psalms 118:8

See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ. Colossians 2:8

Let no person shake your faith. Do not let any one pressure you to walk away from your faith if you have it. Let no person stand in your way from exploring it if it’s new to you or calling you to explore it for yourself.